504–15

Conversation No. 504-15

Date: May 27, 1971
Time: 4:28 pm - 6:38 pm
Location: Oval Office
 46

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(rev. 9/08)



Ronald L. Ziegler, Egil G. (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr., and John D. Ehrlichman met.

Gift from Malik Faisal ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Saud
-Sword

Greetings

[General Conversation] Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)

Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
-Procedures
-President's directive
-Detective work
-Local resources
-Executive order directive
-Division of authority
-Black girl killed in Mississippi
-Federal crime
-Civil rights
-Unknown person
-Step-grandmother
-Mother
-Stepmother
-Mother's father
-Harrison Williams’ bill
-Ziegler’s possible statement
-Administration's stance
-Roles of police agencies
-Directive
-Possible call to Director
-FBI
-Political statement

The President entered at an unknown time after 4:28 pm.

-Summary
-FBI
-Killings of firemen and policemen
-President's directive of November, 1970
-Investigations
 47

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**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Investigatory Information]
[Duration: 1m 24s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1 Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)

**********************************************************************


-97.4% of crimes solved within thirty days
-President's FBI directive of November 1, 1970
-Possible announcement by Ziegler

Ziegler left at 4:35 pm.

Narcotics Special Action Office
-Memo outlining steps
-Trying to gain an initiative
-Congress
-Vietnam
-Robert H. Finch
-Donald H. Rumsfeld
-Establishment
-Starting June 1, 1971
-Directive to Melvin R. Laird
-Elliot L. Richardson
-Rehabilitation
-Prevention
-Education
-Research
-Rehabilitation
-Washington, DC
-Clinics of the Narcotics Treatment Administration
-Methadone maintenance
-Psychotherapy
-Counseling
-Control
-Parole
-Programs
 48

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-Budget
-Evaluation
-Congress
-Legislation
-Appropriation
-Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
-Veterans Administration [VA]
-Department of Defense [DOD] Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
-Implementation
-Legislative package to Congress
-Timing
-Richardson
-New structure in HEW
-Special assistant
-OEO
-VA prevention programs
-DOD prevention programs
-Attorney General
-Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
-Bill
-John N. Mitchell
-Law enforcement
-Jerry V. Wilson
-Treatment for heroin addicts
-Crime rate
-Methadone maintenance and street crime
-Treatment programs
-Reduction of crime

US servicemen and narcotics
-Returning servicemen from Vietnam
-Heroin
-Cost
-Vietnam and US compared
-Stealing
-Legislative efforts
-Military
-Identify, hold, and treat heroin addicts
-Release into civilian life
-Averting crime
-Methadone
 49

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-Example cited
-Addicted Vietnam servicemen
-Number
-Krogh's visit to Vietnam
-George P. Shultz’s and Ehrlichman’s visit to Vietnam
-John E. (“Jack”) Ingersoll
-Vietnam
-President Nguyen Van Thieu Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Ellsworth F. Bunker
-Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
-Heroin smuggling into Vietnam
-Smuggling entry points
-Laos, Thailand, Cambodia
-Bunker
-Thieu
-Cable from Bunker to the White House

Ziegler entered at 4:43 pm.

Ziegler’s forthcoming press conference
-Possible announcements
-Drug problem
-Krogh
-Announcement by the President
-Domestic Council
-Richard G. Kleindienst
-Letter
-Law enforcement

Ziegler left at 4:44 pm.

International drug interdiction
-Bunker
-Vietnam
-Anti-smuggling
-Col. [Forename unknown] Hofson [?]
-Rank
-Laird
-Drug programs in DOD
-Laird's role in drug programs
-Forthcoming meeting with President
-Laird and Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
 50

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-David Packard
-Timing
-Ingersoll
-Report on trip
-Ingersoll’s possible appointment
-State Department
-Ingersoll's role
-Prevention in Turkey and France Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Attorney General
-Consolidating program
-Ingersoll and Attorney General
-International narcotics bills
-Multilateral
-US assistance
-US policy
-Opposition
-Economic and military aid
-Treaties
-United Nations [UN], North America Treaty Organization [NATO]
-State Department
-Turkey and France
-Possible public statement by the President
-Possible forums
-Vietnam
-Middle East
-Far East
-International nature of the drug problem
-Finch and Rumsfeld
-Armed forces
-Legislative package
-Supplemental appropriation
-$110 million
-HEW
-$50 Million to Ingersoll
 51

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******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[National Security]
[Duration: 18s ]


THAILAND Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

******************************************************************************


-National Institutes of Mental Health [NIMH]
-Methadone program
-NIMH
-Methadone
-Community mental health centers
-Chicago
-Washington, DC
-Narcotics Treatment Administration
-Psychiatrists
-Money
-NIMH funding
-Financing for programs treating servicemen
-Special Action Office
-Secretary of Defense
-Prevent discharge of addicts
-Heroin problem

Drugs as a social issue
-Vietnam war protesters
-Drugs
-Nationwide problem
-Finch-Rumsfeld report
-Civilians
-President as eyewitness
-Rome
 52

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-Paris
-Nepal
-Afghanistan
-Commune
-India


******************************************************************************
Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security/Privacy]
[Duration: 27s ]


INDIA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

******************************************************************************


-Vietnam
-Europe
-Jobs
-DOD
-Abrams’ statement
-Correlation of combat role and drug use
-Boredom
-Frustration

Vietnam
-Availability of drugs
-Heroin
-Cost
-Thieu's reaction
-Administration’s complexity
-Police force
-Government
-Prime Minister's family
-National Security Council [NSC]
-Tran Kim Quang
 53

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-NSC
-State Department meeting
-Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan's comments
-Drug source
-State Department official's comments


******************************************************************************
Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 18
[National Security]
[Duration: 1m 25s ]


SOUTHEAST ASIA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 18

******************************************************************************


-Heroin
-History of problem
-April 1970
-Marijuana
-Amphetamines
-Barbiturates
-Marijuana
-Seriousness of heroin problem
-Administration efforts
-Krogh visit
-US armed forces
-Proportion
-Possible statement by President
-Press conference
-Possibility of a Presidential press conference on the issue of the drug problem in
Vietnam

Legislative package
-John A. Scali
-Timing
 54

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-Staff efforts

Bertram S. Brown [NIMH Director]
-Richardson
-Employment at NIMH
-Possible firing
-Conduct
-Views on marijuana Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Federal funding of psychiatric training
-Brown's reaction
-Comments at a Congressional hearing
-Richardson's reaction
-Frederic V. Malek
-Richardson's assessment of the political ramifications
-Possible Brown firing
-Brown's marijuana quote
-Washington Post
-Possession of marijuana
-Brown
-Job in Massachusetts
-Richardson
-Deputy NIMH
-Brown's administrative abilities
-Unknown book on HEW

Richardson and Malek entered at 5:06 pm.

-Hugh Scott
-Edward W. Brooke
-White House
-Finch
-Brown
-Newspaper quotation
-As administrator
-Statements on marijuana

Drug problem with veterans
-President's forthcoming breakfast
-Joint Chiefs of Staff
-Service secretaries
-Laird
-David Packard
 55

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

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Brown
-Mental health
-Cooperation from Brown
-Richardson
-NIMH
-Brown's career
-Department of Mental Health Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Post-graduate work at Harvard University medical school
-John A. Volpe
-Department of Mental Health
-Massachusetts
-Volpe
-Promotion to NIMH

NIMH
-Size
-St. Elizabeth's Hospital
-Washington, D.C.
-Fire hazards
-Budget
-Size
-Administrative history
-National Institutes of Health [NIH]
-Reorganization
-Health Services and Mental Health Administration [HSMHA]
-Indian, public health, and hospital services
-Vernon E. Wilson
-University of Missouri
-Malek
-HSMHA
-NIMH
-Roger O. Egeberg
-Wilson
-Merlin K. Duval
-Egeberg
-Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
-Title
-Possible meeting with the President

Brown
-Testimony before Congress
 56

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-Ehrlichman's call to Richardson
-President’s concerns
-Press conference, May 1, 1971
-Commission on marijuana and drug abuse
-Brown's congressional testimony
-Marijuana
-Legalization
-Penalties for use Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Possible firing
-Age
-White House work
-His testimony on marijuana
-President's stand on marijuana
-Consistency of statements
-Philosophy
-Psychiatry
-Stan Yolles
-Firing
-Brown
-Previous work with Richardson
-Massachusetts
-Legislation on community health services
-Local initiatives
-Richardson’s forthcoming discussion with Brown
-Talking points
-Uncompromising line
-Veterans
-Narcotics Special Action Office
-Following administration policy
-Richardson’s responsibility

Drug Addiction
-Heroin abuse
-Armed Forces
-Numbers
-Crime
-Brown's views on heroin
-Methadone
-Brown
-Richardson's meeting with Brown regarding drugs on May 26, 1971
-Krogh
-Narcotics Special Action Office
 57

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-Jerome H. Jaffe
-Psychiatrist
-Illinois

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19
[Privacy] Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
[Duration: 15s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 19

******************************************************************************


-Other candidates
-Psychiatrists
-Community based mental health facilities
-Group therapy
-Alcoholism
-Psychiatrist
-Clergy
-Group therapy
-Yale University secret societies
-Richardson
-Brown
-Possible meeting with the President
-Jaffe
-Previous experience
-Age
-World War I
-World War II
-Effect on US foreign policy
-South Vietnamese smuggling drugs
-Public reaction
-Press stories
-Subcommittee in the House
-Robert H. Steele
-Trip
-Report
-Vietnamese officials and heroin smuggling
 58

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-Thieu
-South Vietnam government
-Bunker and Abrams meeting with Thieu
-Steele
-Bunker
-Abrams
-Thieu
-Reporters in Vietnam Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Possible White House reaction to press stories
-Low profile
-Steele
-Thieu
-Bunker's proposal to Thieu last week

Health program
-Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
-White paper
-HEW mailing
-Congress, newspapers, radio, television
-Richardson
-William F. Buckley, Jr.'s program \"Firing Line\", May 26, 1971
-Buckley
-Program’s theme
-Kennedy's health proposal

Murder of black girl in Birmingham [?]
-Response of Southern editors

H.R. 1
-Status
-Hearings in House Rules Committee
-Wilbur D. Mills
-Timing
-Revenue sharing
-Senate
-Richardson's lobbying efforts
-Carl T. Curtis
-Ronald W. Reagan
-Position
-Edwin Meese, III
-Frank C. Carlucci
-California Rural Legal Assistance [CRLA]
 59

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-Meese
-Administration strategy
-Edwin Reinecke
-President's assistance
-Reagan
-Effects of H.R. 1
-Administration strategy
-Planning a trip for Richardson Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Commonwealth Club in San Francisco
-Television appearance in Los Angeles

Richardson and Malek left at 5:48 pm.

President's schedule
-Policemen
-Hoover
-Dwight L. Chapin
-Wednesday breakfast
-JCS
-Leaders meetings
-Anastasio Somoza Debayle

Krogh left at 5:49 pm.

Gift
-Sword
-Saudis

Richardson
-Brown
-Finch

Leon Panetta's book
-Finch
-Ehrlichman
-Civil rights
-Resignation
-President’s statement on school desegregation, March 24, 1970
-Ehrlichman's staff

Secretary Richardson
-Henry A. Kissinger
 60

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-William P. Rogers
-Possible appointment
-State Department

An unknown woman entered at an unknown time after 5:49 pm.

Rose Mary Woods
-Location Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)

The unknown woman left at an unknown time before 5:51 pm.

Haldeman entered at 5:51 pm.

President's schedule
-Domestic Council
-JCS
-Breakfast
-Boy Scouts
-Somoza

Drugs
-Armed Services addiction problem
-President’s forthcoming meeting
-Laird
-Kissinger
-Ingersoll
-Laird
-Packard
-John N. Mitchell
-Krogh

Harrison A. Williams, Jr.
-Cop-killers
-Jail
-Cops

Hoover
-Criticism

Black Panthers
-Guilt
 61

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

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Kissinger entered at 5:56 pm.

Anatoliy F. Dobrynin

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
-Internal policies
-State Department
-Treatment of Jews in the USSR Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Statement regarding the USSR
-White House
-Kissinger's religion
-Treatment of Blacks in the US
-Max M. Fisher

Drugs in Vietnam
-Forthcoming meeting, June 3, 1971
-Arthur T. Downey
-$120 million program
-100,000 Vietnam veteran addicts
-Krogh
-Heroin
-Congress
-Drug trafficking
-Thieu
-Forthcoming meeting of President, JCS, Service Secretaries, Laird and Packard
-Army
-Volunteers
-Cost of heroin in Vietnam compared to cost in US
-Crime
-Ehrlichman
-Kissinger
-Jaffe
-White House Special Action Group
-HEW
-Defense Department
-State Department
-Finch and Donald H. Rumsfeld report
-Drugs in Armed Forces in Europe
-Civilian drug use
-Hippies
-Foreign policy considerations
-Foreign service
 62

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-Turkey
-Importance as an issue
-U. Alexis Johnson
-Rogers
-John N. Irwin, II
-Attitude in the State Department
-Status quo
-Johnson's attendance at upcoming meeting Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Ehrlichman
-Drug trafficking
-State Department's efforts
-Turkey
-Thailand
-Bunker
-Americans in Europe
-Finch and Rumsfeld report
-Separate meeting
-Forthcoming meeting
-JCS
-Armed Service Secretaries
-Stanley R. Resor
-Robert F. Froehlke
-Resor's statement
-Laird
-Froehlke
-Press
-John H. Chafee
-Robert C. Seamans, Jr.
-Armed Services Secretaries
-Veterans Administration
-Donald E. Johnson
-Leaks
-Classified information
-New York Times
-Intelligence
-Jack N. Anderson's column
-Sources
-Richard M. Helms
-Defense Department
-Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA]
-Helms
-Leaks
 63

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-Missiles


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 20
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 23s ] Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 20

******************************************************************************


-Richardson
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

Foreign Affairs
-Rogers
-Spiro T. Agnew's talk with Haldeman on May 26, 1971
-Article in Washington Star
-Agnew's meeting with South African ministers
-Rogers’ canceled meeting with South African minister
-Trade discussions
-African bureau
-David P. Newsome
-White House Policy on Blacks
-Agnew
-South African Minister of Information
-Rogers’ call to Agnew

Panetta
-Book
-Firing
-HEW
-Brooke
-Scott
-Finch and Ehrlichman
-Firing

Charles W. Yost
 64

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(rev. 9/08)



-New summaries
-Firing
-State Department
-Activities
-Dean G. Acheson
-Disloyalty

Leaks Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Missile silos
-Anti-ballistic missiles [ABM]
-US defense build-up
-USSR

Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
-Memo by Roger Barth
-IRS audit of Republicans in South Carolina
-Don Bacon[?], Deputy Director in IRS
-Audit of President's income taxes in 1961
-Culpability

Wire taps
-Robert C. Mardian
-J. Edgar Hoover
-Central File records
-Mardian’s efforts
-Robert F. Kennedy
-National security
-Political enemies
-Hoover
-Use of outsiders
-Kissinger's phones

IRS
-John B. Connally
-Tax audit
-Johnnie M. Walters
-Barth

-Rose Mary Woods
-Tax lawyer

Leaks
 65

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-Defense Department and ACDA

Vietnam
-Kissinger's relations with Laird
-Laird's meeting with President
-Helicopters in Vietnam
-Connally
-Importance of helicopters in Vietnam Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Laird's goal in Vietnam
-Bombing in North Laos
-Laird order
-Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-Daily reports
-Haig
-ACDA
-Leaks
-Defense and ACDA
-Philip J. Farley
-Gerard C. Smith
-Intelligence
-Possible consequences of leaks
-Staff meeting of May 27, 1971
-John Finney
-Intelligence
-Mining

Leaks
-National security tap on John Finney
-Hoover
-Subpoena
-Surveillance
-Helms
-Breaking the law
-Photographs
-Surveillance operations
-Government
-Private person
-New York Times
-Finney
-Identity of leakers
-Finney’s sources
-National security
 66

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

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(rev. 9/08)



-Photographic equipment
-Congress
-Secret government clearances
-Oath of secrecy
-Identity of leakers
-White House
-State Department
-ACDA Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
-Smith
-ACDA
-Farley
-Defense Department
-Laird’s office
-Moorer
-Robert E. Pursley
-Need for administration action
-1972 election
-State Department
-Loyalty
-Defense Department
-Loyalty
-Military
-Robert S. McNamara
-ACDA
-Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]

Appointments
-CIA
-Gen. Robert E. Cushman, Jr.
-Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
-Military
-Cushman
-Possible position
-Commandant of the Marine Corps
-Finch
-Possible rank
-Marine Corps
-Maj. Gen James D. (“Don”) Hughes
-JCS
-CIA
-JCS
-Moorer
 67

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(rev. 9/08)



-Andrew J. Goodpaster
-Reappointment
-Cushman
-Commandant
-Goodpaster
-CIA
-Walters
Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)
Domestic wiretapping
-Walters
-Cushman
-National security
-Walters
-Conspiracy
-Cushman


**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 16
[National Security]
[Duration: 13s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 16

**********************************************************************


Walters
-Support for Nixon
 68

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(rev. 9/08)



******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22
[National Security]
[Duration: 14s ]


INTELLIGENCE Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 22

******************************************************************************

[First name unknown] Drummond
-Kissinger's staff
-Possible appointments
-Promotions
-Navy Chief of Operations

Haig
-Possible appointment
-Army Chief of Staff

Army
-Gen. William C. Westmoreland
-JCS
-Four year terms
-Laird
-Abrams
-Laos operation
-Bangkok
-Health
-Laos
-Ability as an army officer
-Bangkok
-Kissinger's cables to Abrams
-Abrams’ replies

Vietnam
-World War II
-Garrison H. Davidson
 69

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(rev. 9/08)



-Richard G. Stilwell
-President's friendship with Stilwell
-Davidson
-Gen. Charles H. Bonesteel, III

The President, Ehrlichman, Haldeman, and Kissinger left at 6:38 pm.

Conv. No. 504-15 (cont.)