833–11

Conversation No. 833-11

Date: January 4, 1973
Time: Unknown between 10:03 am and 11:33 am
Location: Oval Office

Henry A. Kissinger met with William P. Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, and
Col. Richard T. Kennedy.

Melvin R. Laird

Republicans

Photographs of Kissinger
 -17-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Parties

The President entered at 10:03 am.

Laird's trip

The President’s schedule
-Presentation ceremony for Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Defense Department

Congressional briefings
-Kissinger’s calls
-John C. Stennis
-F. Edward Hebert
-Barry M. Goldwater
-Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
-Hugh Scott
-Announcements
-William B. Saxbe

Vietnam settlement
-Negotiations
-Briefing
-Kennedy
-Notes
-Spiro T. Agnew
-[Thomas] Hale Boggs’ memorial service
-Rogers
-William H. Sullivan
-Paris talks
-Public posture
-Announcement of meeting
-Ronald L. Ziegler
-Photographers
-Format of meeting
-Laird's report, Moorer's report
-Report on bombing in Vietnam
-Hospital
-National Security Council [NSC] staff
-Ellsworth F. Bunker
 -18-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Civilian casualties
-Numbers
-South Vietnamese
-Destruction of cities by North Vietnamese
-Quang Tri
-Hue
-Saigon
-Population
-Hospitals, orphanages
-Purpose of reporting
-Double standard
-US air men
-Area bombing
-Hanoi
-Pinpoint bombing
-Specific targets
-Hospitals
-Report on civilian casualties
-Distribution
-Kissinger, Rogers, Laird, Charles W. Colson
-Hospitals
-Orphanages
-Schools
-The President's visit to South Vietnam in 1967
-US hospital
-Patients
-Vietnamese, Americans
-Children's ward
-Vietnamese child
-Casualty
-Courage
-Doll sent for child from Nixon
-Killing civilians
-Policy of North Vietnamese

Format of discussion
-Military briefing
-Kissinger
-Report on Paris talks
-Public posture
 -19-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Development in talks

Military operations in Vietnam
-Activity
-Four military regions, Laos
-Air operations
-Number of sorties
-Targets
-Military capabilities
-Trails
-Passes
-Truck parks
-US ambassador to Laos, G. McMurtrie Godley
-B-52s in Laos
-Stability
-Laos, Cambodia
-Nguyen Van Thieu
-Cease-fire
-Bombing
-Reports to Congress
-Positive results
-Military targets
-Hanoi
-Haiphong
-Photographs
-Loss of B-52
-Location
-B-52s
-Civilian casualties
-Defense Department responses
-Defense of bombing
-Negative charges
-Prisoner of War [POWs] camps
-Damage
-SAMs
-Commercial airport
-MiGs
-Hebert

North Vietnamese charges of civilian casualties
 -20-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Public relations [PR] problem
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
-Impact of bombing on North Vietnamese
Impact on negotiations
-Kissinger
-Members of Congress
-Jackson
-Press coverage
-Congressional hearings
-North Vietnamese
-Use of photographs
-Negative impact
-Laird
-Individual briefings
-Hebert

Military operations in Vietnam
-B-52s
-Losses
-Percentage
-Anti-aircraft missiles
-North Vietnamese capabilities
-Christmas stand down
-Situation within North Vietnam


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1A
[National security]
[Duration: 50s ]

Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1A
*****************************************************************


-North Vietnamese recovery capabilites
-Timing
-Missiles
 -21-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Railroad
-Damage assessment
-Repairs
-Missile assembly rate
-Bombing effectiveness
-Negotiations


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1B
[National security]
[Duration: 1m 37s ]

Weapon systems

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1B
*****************************************************************


-Weather
-Air power
-Impact on tactics
-Instrument systems

The President's message to B-52 crews
-Appreciation

Anti-war statements by captured pilots
-Haig
-Prisoners of War [POWs]
-Officers
-Lack of medical treatment
-B-52 pilots
-Morale
-North Vietnamese actions

Military operations in Vietnam
-Moorer's call to Gen. Frederick C. Weyand
-North Vietnamese forces
-Numbers
 -22-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-South Vietnam Marines
-South Vietnam Airborne
-Ground action
-Kontum
-Military Region Two
-Hue
-Military Region One


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1C
[National security]
[Duration: 1m 13s ]

Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1C
*****************************************************************


South Vietnam Air Force
-Kissinger
-Florida
-Report
-Defense Department
-Weyand
-F-5s
-C-130s
-Capabilities
-Training
-Thieu's attitude
-Vietnamization
-Success
-Air forces, logistics, ground forces
-Recent operations
-Air support
-Independence

Military operations in Vietnam
-B-52s
 -23-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Number
-Tactical aircraft
-Effectiveness
-North Vietnamese communications
-Psychological impact
-Support
-Tankers
-Airmen
-Bravery

Photographs of bomb damage
-Hanoi
-Targets
-Railroads
-Craters
-Railroad yards
-Railroads
-Hanoi
-Trucks
-Use in briefings
-Craters
-Haiphong
-Warehouses
-Storage areas
-Fires
-North Vietnamese aircraft
-Airfield
-Lights
-Installations
-Storage
-Command and control
-Runway
-Communications
-Ambulance
-Industries
-Repair work
-Railroads
-Haiphong
-Petroleum, Oil, and Lubricants [POL]
-B-52s
 -24-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Hanoi power plant
-Smart bomb
-Power grid
-Destruction

Air raids
-Smart bombs
-Weather
-Headquarters
-Hanoi Hilton
-POWs
-Proximity
-Soviet Union
-Embassy
-Targets
-Telephone exchange
-Defense Headquarters
-Accuracy
-Mistakes
-Soviet Union
-Embassy
-Effects
-Report
-Recommendations for targets
-Training and assembly areas
-SONTAY
-Negotiations
-Timing
-Congress
-Losses
-Preparation
-Resumption of bombing
-Hanoi

Public posture of Defense Department
-Targets
-Military

Briefings
-Press relations
 -25-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Use of photographs
-Rogers
-Congressmen, Senators
-Enemy build up


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1D
[National security]
[Duration: 8s ]

Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1D
*****************************************************************


-Infiltration
-Increase
-Intentions
-Compared to last year's rate
-Tanks
-Congress
-Stennis
-Tone


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1E
[National security]
[Duration: 28s ]

Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1E
*****************************************************************

-Stennis

Vietnam War
 -26-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-US aid to South Vietnam
-North Vietnamese buildup
-April 1972 offensive
-Effectiveness


*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1F
[National security]
[Duration: 2m 13s ]

Intelligence

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1F
*****************************************************************


Vietnam settlement
-Kissinger’s negotiations in Paris
-Sullivan
-South Vietnamese
-North Vietnamese
-Transcript of proceedings
-US proposals
-North Vietnamese delays
-Sovereignty
-Demilitarized Zone [DMZ]
-Language changes
-Protocols
-Signing
-Language changes
-POWs
-Protocols
-Kissinger's briefing
-Transcript of proceedings
-Sullivan
-Laird’s memorandum
-December bombing of North Vietnam
-PR
-Congressional briefing
 -27-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Military results
-Explanation
-North Vietnamese negotiating tactics
-Impact on negotiations
-Military targets
-US pilots’ safety
-Accidents
-Bad faith bargaining
-North Vietnamese
-North Vietnamese propaganda
-POWs
-Photographs

Rogers's statement on Vietnam
-Congressional relaions
-House Foreign Affairs Committee
-Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-Specificity
-Protocols
-Kissinger’s approval
-Negotiations
-Timing
-Kissinger
-Maurice Schumann
-Compared to information given foreigners
-North Vietnam
-Soviet Union
-PRC
-South Vietnam
-Schumann
-Limitations on disclosure
-Agreement with North Vietnamese
-House Foreign Affairs Committee
-Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-Charles H. Percy
-Resolution
-Republican support
-Hebert
-POW camps
-Bomb damage
 -28-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Photographs
-George H. Mahon
-Laird’s public statements
-Negotiations
-Progress
-North Vietnamese strategy
-Chowder and Marching Society
-Reaction to December 1972 bombing
-Review by White House, Kissinger
-Impact on negotiation
-North Vietnamese delays
-Advantage
-Delayed agreement
-Compared to past delays
-North Vietnamese’s view
-Congress
-The President’s unpredictability
Missiles
-Explanation
-December 1972 bombing
-Success
-Examples of North Vietnamese bad faith
-International Commission of Control and Supervision [ICCS]
-Restrictions
-Canada
-Investigations
-Cease-fire monitoring
-Infiltration
-Delay in release
-Developments in negotiations

Laird’s statement
-Military targets
-Photographs
-Congress
-Accidents
-Civilian casualties
-POW camps
-Publicity
-Stennis, Mahon
 -29-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-Briefing
-December 1972 bombing
-Announcement
-Military’s motivation
-Tone
-Military Assistance Command Vietnam [MACV]
-Saigon
-Content
-Statement of facts
-Military targets
-POW camps
-Timing
-Reaction of doves
-North Vietnamese position
-MACV’s role
-Moorer’s role
-Laird’s role
-North Vietnamese allegations
-Refutation
-POW camps
-Photographs
-Timing

Roger’s statement
-Congressional relations
-Demands
-Double track approach
-Delays
-Negotiations
-Vietnam settlement
-Prospects
-Optimism
-PR
-Negotiations
-Seriousness
-1973 Inauguration
-Photographs

Vietnam settlement
-Cease-fire
 -30-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

-US military actions
-Administration attitude
-No statements
-Press relations
-Divisions in administration
-Ronald L. Ziegler

Congressional relations
-Supporters
-Stennis, Hebert
-House Foreign Affairs Committee
-Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-Informing Congress
-Kissinger’s view
-Negotiations
-Briefing
-Press story
-Gerald R. Ford
-Freshman Congress members
-John D. Ehrlichman, Shultz
-Kissinger’s schedule
-William J. Fulbright
-The President's meetings with Congressional leadership
-Scott, Carl B. Albert, Mansfield
-Briefings
-House Appropriations Committee
-House Armed Service Committee
-Press coverage
-Senate Foreign Relations Committee
-House Foreign Affairs Committee
-December bombing
-Resumption
-Purpose
-Targets
-Otto Passman
-Explanation

Haig’s award ceremony
-Citation
 -31-

NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Tape Subject Log
(rev. Feb-09)

Conversation No. 833-11 (cont’d)

Rogers, et. al., left at 11:33 am.